Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard

"WP:DRN" redirects here. For the "Deny Recognition" essay, see WP:DNR.

Welcome to the dispute resolution noticeboard (DRN)

This is an informal place to resolve small content disputes as part of dispute resolution. It may also be used as a tool to direct certain discussions to more appropriate forums, such as requests for comment, or other noticeboards. You can ask a question on the talk page. This is an early stop for most disputes on Wikipedia. You are not required to participate, however, the case filer must participate in all aspects of the dispute or the matter will be considered failed. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. Be civil and remember; Maintain Wikipedia policy: it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. Editors must take particular care adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page. This may also apply to some groups. Noticeboards should not be a substitute for talk pages. Editors are expected to have had extensive discussion on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to work out the issues before coming to DRN. Do you need assistance? Would you like to help? Request dispute resolution If we can't help you, a volunteer will point you in the right direction. Discussions should be civil, calm, concise, neutral, objective and as nice as possible. This noticeboard is for content disputes only. Comment on the contributions, not the contributors. Off-topic or uncivil behavior may garner a warning, improper material may be struck-out, collapsed, or deleted, and a participant could be asked to step back from the discussion. We cannot accept disputes that are already under discussion at other content or conduct dispute resolution forums or in decision-making processes such as Requests for comments, Articles for deletion, or Requested moves. The dispute must have been recently discussed extensively on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to be eligible for help at DRN. The discussion should have been on the article talk page. Discussion on a user talk page is useful but not sufficient, because the article talk page may be watched by other editors who may be able to comment. Discussion normally should have taken at least two days, with more than one post by each editor. Ensure that you deliver a notice to each person you add to the case filing by leaving a notice on their user talk page. DRN has a notice template you can post to their user talk page by using the code shown here: {{subst:drn-notice}}. Be sure to sign and date each notice with four tildes (~~~~). Giving notice on the article talk page in dispute or relying on linking their names here will not suffice. Do not add your own formatting in the conversation. Let the moderators (DRN Volunteers) handle the formatting of the discussion as they may not be ready for the next session. Follow moderator instructions There will be times when the moderator may issue an instruction. It is expected of you to follow their instruction and you can always ask the volunteer on their talk page for clarification, if not already provided. Examples are about civility, don't bite the newcomers, etc. If you need help: If you need a helping hand just ask a volunteer, who will assist you. This is not a court with judges or arbitrators that issue binding decisions: we focus on resolving disputes through consensus, compromise, and advice about policy. For general questions relating to the dispute resolution process, please see our FAQ page. Become a volunteer We are always looking for new volunteers and everyone is welcome. Click the volunteer button above to join us, and read over the volunteer guide to learn how to get started. Being a volunteer on this page is not formal in any respect, and it is not necessary to have any previous dispute resolution experience. However, having a calm and patient demeanor and a good knowledge of Wikipedia policies and guidelines is very important. It's not mandatory to list yourself as a volunteer to help here, anyone is welcome to provide input. Volunteers should remember: Volunteers should gently and politely help the participant fix problems. Suggest alternative venues if needed. Try to be nice and engage the participants. Volunteers do not have any special powers, privileges, or authority in DRN or in Wikipedia, except as noted here. Volunteers who have had past dealings with the article, subject matter, or with the editors involved in a dispute which would bias their response must not act as a volunteer on that dispute. If any editor objects to a volunteer's participation in a dispute, the volunteer must either withdraw or take the objection to the DRN talk page to let the community comment upon whether or not the volunteer should continue in that dispute. Listed volunteers open a case by signing a comment in the new filing. When closing a dispute, please mark it as "closed" in the status template (see the volunteer guide for more information), remove the entire line about 'donotarchive' so that the bot will archive it after 48 hours with no other edits. Open/close quick reference To open, replace {{DR case status}} with {{DR case status|open}} To close, replace the "open" with "resolved", "failed", or "closed". Add {{DRN archive top|reason=(reason here) ~~~~}} beneath the case status template, and add {{DRN archive bottom}} at the bottom of the case. Remember to remove the DoNotArchive bit line (the entire line).

Case		Created		Last volunteer edit		Last modified
Title	Status	User	Time	User	Time	User	Time
Talk:Robert (doll)#Suggested_Lead_Edit_v4	Closed	Gabriellemcnell (t)	16 hours	Kovcszaln6 (t)	35 minutes	Kovcszaln6 (t)	35 minutes
Sales data dispute on Chris Brown article	New	Instantwatym (t)	13 hours	Kovcszaln6 (t)	5 minutes	Kovcszaln6 (t)	5 minutes

If you would like a regularly-updated copy of this status box on your user page or talk page, put {{DRN case status}} on your page. Click on that link for more options.
Last updated by FireflyBot (talk) at 11:46, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Current disputes

Talk:Robert (doll)#Suggested_Lead_Edit_v4

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Filed by Gabriellemcnell on 18:59, 20 June 2024 (UTC).

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute Talk:Robert (doll)#Suggested Lead Edit v4 (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs) Users involved Gabriellemcnell (talk · contribs) Donald_Albury (talk · contribs) LuckyLouie (talk · contribs) AndyTheGrump (talk · contribs) NJZombie (talk · contribs) Dispute overview I am trying to update Robert (doll)'s page as the current page is not complete, leaving out crucial information regarding Robert. Users @Donald_Albury, @LuckyLouie, @AndyTheGrump, and @NJZombie are preventing any collaboration from taking place to update Robert's page. I have taken to the articles talk page, after attempting to publish changes, to suggest my edits and get constructive feedback from other editors. There are a handful of editors that have taken my changes, and suggested changes, very personal and have blocked me from updating the article in any capacity. Rather than working with me to update the lead (and the rest of the article), these users continue to bring up arbitrary points skirting around the main issue in my suggested improvements. The article remains incomplete and I have hit a standstill at working with the other editors. They are keen to stop any action from me pertaining to Robert, going so far as to report me as a SockPuppet (unsuccessfully), blocking me for edit warring (though I do not think I was taking part in warring as my edits did not exceed 3 published changes within 24 hours), and attacking my character. I've continued my efforts to collaborate with these editors, taking their suggestions and putting them up for review but am continuously met with animosity and hard no's to any of my proposed edits - without helpful suggestions on improving my proposed changes. My most current efforts are focusing solely on the lead as it is extremely bare and does not come close to covering the scope of what Robert is. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robert_(doll)#Suggested_Lead_Edit_v4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Gabriellemcnell How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? Can you help me understand the exact problem with my latest change proposal? Can you suggest a lead that includes the information I'm concerned about leaving out in a way that appeases these other editors? Summary of dispute by Donald_Albury Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Summary of dispute by LuckyLouie Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Summary of dispute by AndyTheGrump Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Not much of a dispute really. Gabriellemcnell wants to add text to the lede. Nobody else agrees. I don't, since I see the proposed addition as repetitive ('hauntings' after the lede already stated that the doll was 'allegedly haunted') and promotional ('Robert has daily visitors, thousands of which have written letters addressed directly to him'). To which I'd add badly sourced too, having checked the source cited, which is an interview of someone promoting their books on 'hauntings'. As for comments on behaviour, they don't belong here. If Gabriellemcnell wants to bring them up somewhere more appropriate (e.g. WP:ANI, I'd recommend reading WP:BOOMERANG first. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:25, 20 June 2024 (UTC) Summary of dispute by NJZombie Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Talk:Robert (doll)#Suggested_Lead_Edit_v4 discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary. The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Sales data dispute on Chris Brown article

– New discussion.

Filed by Instantwatym on 22:06, 20 June 2024 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Chris Brown (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Instantwatym (talk · contribs)
• theWikiholic (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

Myself and another editor by the username theWikiholic have been involved in an ongoing dispute regarding total sales of artist Chris Brown on the following article: https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Brown. The issue has already been discussed on the article talk page and in an ANI discussion started by theWikiholic (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=1221291435#Usage_of_WP:Circular_sources_and_Disruptive_editing_to_promote_inflated_record_sales_on_Chris_Brown's_page). Our positions on this dispute are articulated well on the ANI discussion; as well as our reasons for disagreement. And there is no consensus either way.

How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

- Talk page discussion started by myself on the article page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Chris_Brown

- ANI discussion started by theWikiholic: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=1221291435#Usage_of_WP:Circular_sources_and_Disruptive_editing_to_promote_inflated_record_sales_on_Chris_Brown's_page)

How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

Involve other neutral editors with familiarity of music certifications and sales to outline whether or not certifications equate to sales. If not, outline if total certified units (which in and of themselves are not a matter of dispute but rather a fact) can be simply be reported as certified units as opposed to sales in articles (e.g., Brown has certified ___ million units worldwide, as opposed to saying Brown has sold ___ million units worldwide based on his certifications).

Summary of dispute by Instantwatym

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Summary of dispute by theWikiholic

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Sales data dispute on Chris Brown article

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

• Volunteer note: As suggested at ANI, I think you should consider an RfC. Kovcszaln6 (talk) 11:43, 21 June 2024 (UTC)